Hello everyone,
I have read these boards but never posted till now. I have a love of a little cairn boy - Ted - who is 3.5 years old. I got him from a good breeder, not a puppy mill kind of dog and he has been with me since about 12 weeks. He has always been a little love. Never had any kind of separation anxiety that I saw. For the last 3 months, he has started floor licking, in the house it's the h/w floor, or outside it's the sidewalk in my yard. It started when he heard an alarm go off in the garage (burgular alarm). It was being tested, and as far as I know, only beeped one or two times. After that, he licked when the garage was opened or closed, but not EVERY time it was opened or closed, only sometimes. Well, it progressively got worse over time, until I do not ever go in the garage since the last 3 weeks. But now, he licks all the time, and nothing, nothing I can find or do will get him out of it. It breaks my heart to see him so fearful and obsessed, he does it till he froths at the mouth.
I brought him to the vet last week to rule out any thing physical. She found struvitis crystals in his urine / bladder. He is now on special food, no more scraps from table, and also on antibiotics. He will be tested again (blood and urine) in 3 weeks. She also suggested anti anxiety medicine (Reconcile), like prozac. So, he is on both. My little guy is just seemingly MIA, my heart is breaking over this, but I have to try the behavior modification that is suggested by the REconcile dvd training kit (for example, always before I would leave in the morning and say "good bye" and return and make a fuss over him, but apparently that's a no no with anxiety, and I see that from his behavior, cause another symptom is that he does the submissive urniation thingy, when I return from work, and that's another new behavior.
I moved about 1.5 years ago, to a noisy street from a quiet street. At the time, it didn't phase my little guy a bit. But now I wonder .... I also have been rather ill with several chronic issues, one of which is peripheral neuropathy in my feet, which means I am inpain a lot and no longer walk him 2x a day (that is for the past 2 yrs). I do get him to my friends house once a week for a play day with her gang of dogs, which he has done since he was about 5 months old. I just wonder if too many changes have totally freaked him out - he is acting out of his mind, like nobody's home. Sorry if I sound dramatic, just it's friday night, and I'm so very upset. I hope this course of meds is the right hting for him.
I keep gently correcting him when he starts the floor licking now, and have tried leashing him to my belt loop, as I sometimes did when he was small. He's not too happy about it, but it seems to help a bit. I also bought and play some calming piano music that is marketed for the "anxious" dog. I've never dealt with anything like this, had several different types of dogs...
Anyone have any words of wisdom? It's only been a few days (3 days) since we got the results of tests and been on med, so maybe those will help with struvitis crystals and the pain they might be causing , and the anxiety. I hope someone has some advice, thanks for reading (if you read this far, guess I've written a book).
Thanks in advance,
Ted's Mom Jayne
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Obsessive Floor Licking (Sidewalk / hardwood floor)
Started by JayneF, Dec 16 2011 06:47 PM
16 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 08:05 PM
when you say this is obsessive, do you mean he really does nothing else? does he eat? does he get up at night to do it? does he ignore you when he is doing it?
#3
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 08:10 PM
I wonder if distracting him in a positive way would help. Have you heard of clicker training? Look it up online and teach him tricks. It will exercise his mind. Just an idea.
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:00 PM
"It started when he heard an alarm go off in the garage (burgular alarm). It was being tested, and as far as I know, only beeped one or two times."
The following will be no cure but it might help you understand that you and particularly your dog are not "different". Last year my Mother-in-law installed a door alarm on the back entrance to her home--the alarm beeps first and then there is an electronic announcement that "Rear Door Has Been Opened". Since the first time our older Cairn heard that alarm and announcement she has been very uncomfortable in the home--it is not loud nor intrusive but the dog simply will not and cannot relax in the home--it is so uncomfortable for her that we will not subject her to the experience--we don't take her there. She wanders, stares, pants--all very uncharacteristic for her as a very stable, calm seven year old Cairn that in all prior situations was never unhinged by noises--only this one, but it is a serious matter. Even turning down the alarm does not comfort her now and this came on her immediately upon hearing the alarm the first time-but it took us a couple of visits to figure out what was causing the problem.
So, I know that a random unfamiliar sound can spook a Cairn and the impact will stay with them. I would suggest turning off the alarm (I know, you have it for a reason) and then hoping your dog is able to somehow adjust to his environment.
Whether the sound is the reason the dog's behavior has change you can never know but if you are looking for a causal factor--your sentence quoted above tells me a lot and apparently you suspect the same thing.
The only other alternative and I am hesitant to recommend it is to do some kind of immersion therapy on your little guy--lots of treats, positive reinforcement, in the proximity of the activated alarm with the dog--over and over until he settles---IF HE SETTLES. Before you try this you had better discuss with your vet. I did not and would not do this with Sammi--but, I have the option of not taking her to the house--yours is a much different matter.
Cairns are so smart but sometimes that is a curse--living in a situation with an intermittent sound that terrifies them seems to be unbearable for them and something they seem unable to shake.
The following will be no cure but it might help you understand that you and particularly your dog are not "different". Last year my Mother-in-law installed a door alarm on the back entrance to her home--the alarm beeps first and then there is an electronic announcement that "Rear Door Has Been Opened". Since the first time our older Cairn heard that alarm and announcement she has been very uncomfortable in the home--it is not loud nor intrusive but the dog simply will not and cannot relax in the home--it is so uncomfortable for her that we will not subject her to the experience--we don't take her there. She wanders, stares, pants--all very uncharacteristic for her as a very stable, calm seven year old Cairn that in all prior situations was never unhinged by noises--only this one, but it is a serious matter. Even turning down the alarm does not comfort her now and this came on her immediately upon hearing the alarm the first time-but it took us a couple of visits to figure out what was causing the problem.
So, I know that a random unfamiliar sound can spook a Cairn and the impact will stay with them. I would suggest turning off the alarm (I know, you have it for a reason) and then hoping your dog is able to somehow adjust to his environment.
Whether the sound is the reason the dog's behavior has change you can never know but if you are looking for a causal factor--your sentence quoted above tells me a lot and apparently you suspect the same thing.
The only other alternative and I am hesitant to recommend it is to do some kind of immersion therapy on your little guy--lots of treats, positive reinforcement, in the proximity of the activated alarm with the dog--over and over until he settles---IF HE SETTLES. Before you try this you had better discuss with your vet. I did not and would not do this with Sammi--but, I have the option of not taking her to the house--yours is a much different matter.
Cairns are so smart but sometimes that is a curse--living in a situation with an intermittent sound that terrifies them seems to be unbearable for them and something they seem unable to shake.
Edited by Idaho Cairns, 16 December 2011 - 09:01 PM.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:34 AM
Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer.
When I call it obsessive, I mean he looks frantic, breathes hard, looks terrified in his eyes, and his behaviour is showing fear while he licks. He will continue for 30 to 90 minutes. Of course I'm interrupting him all the time at it. He might become distracted from it for a short minute (60 seconds or the time it takes to gulp down a treat, after I have him do a simple trick with a treat as the reward). Sometimes he refuses the treat altogether, which is unheard of for him. So, he will stop for a moment, hurriedly do what I force him do, then return to licking. If i carry him to our chair to cuddle / comfort him, he is anxious and uncomfortable and gets away to return to licking. If I take him away from the home on a walk, then he is anxious while we walk, and resumes licking when he returns home.
Early on I tried to do the de-sensitization to the garage door, by leashing him, then treating him near and inside the garage and then going for a walk (which he usually loves). The garage is outside the fenced yard area that he "owns". He did not appear too afraid of the garage itself, just curious (which is normal for him). Taking him to the source did not seem to help / hurt, but perhaps it did hurt. In any case, I have not used the garage for 4 weeks now, and oddly, he is now licking more often and fearful of more things. Perhaps he is waiting for the "other shoe to drop" since he hasn't heard the beep... I'll never know, but could be.
In any case, he is licking with less vigor, but more often. Almost like a job he must do, but he's doing it half heartedly. As I write that, I get a little hope, (seeing it from that angle) perhaps it will lessen. as I don't open the garage door. But the fact that he's doing it at random times, is negative too. Sigh. I'm so very worried, and as Idaho Cairns wrote, his life here now seems unbearable, that sounds dramatic, because in some ways he has everything, but in another way - he has lost everything, since he really seems out of his mind when he starts licking. I will keep writing and I thank everyone for their info. This is a wonderful resource.
When I call it obsessive, I mean he looks frantic, breathes hard, looks terrified in his eyes, and his behaviour is showing fear while he licks. He will continue for 30 to 90 minutes. Of course I'm interrupting him all the time at it. He might become distracted from it for a short minute (60 seconds or the time it takes to gulp down a treat, after I have him do a simple trick with a treat as the reward). Sometimes he refuses the treat altogether, which is unheard of for him. So, he will stop for a moment, hurriedly do what I force him do, then return to licking. If i carry him to our chair to cuddle / comfort him, he is anxious and uncomfortable and gets away to return to licking. If I take him away from the home on a walk, then he is anxious while we walk, and resumes licking when he returns home.
Early on I tried to do the de-sensitization to the garage door, by leashing him, then treating him near and inside the garage and then going for a walk (which he usually loves). The garage is outside the fenced yard area that he "owns". He did not appear too afraid of the garage itself, just curious (which is normal for him). Taking him to the source did not seem to help / hurt, but perhaps it did hurt. In any case, I have not used the garage for 4 weeks now, and oddly, he is now licking more often and fearful of more things. Perhaps he is waiting for the "other shoe to drop" since he hasn't heard the beep... I'll never know, but could be.
In any case, he is licking with less vigor, but more often. Almost like a job he must do, but he's doing it half heartedly. As I write that, I get a little hope, (seeing it from that angle) perhaps it will lessen. as I don't open the garage door. But the fact that he's doing it at random times, is negative too. Sigh. I'm so very worried, and as Idaho Cairns wrote, his life here now seems unbearable, that sounds dramatic, because in some ways he has everything, but in another way - he has lost everything, since he really seems out of his mind when he starts licking. I will keep writing and I thank everyone for their info. This is a wonderful resource.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 05:49 AM
it is certainly very distressing when a pet's life changes so much, and he seems clearly so anxious.
my dog went through a year or more of increasing floor licking, which eventually became not as extreme as you describe, but pretty repetitive. the probable cause, we now know, was pain --in his case neurological pain, but any kind of pain can cause behavior like this. when my dog's pain subsided, so did the behavior. i'm assuming that your vet made a thorough search for any possible sources of physical pain before prescribing anxiety meds. teeth? stomach/gastric? back or hips? if you are not satisfied that this was done, it is worth the time and money to make sure that your dog has had a thorough physical --a blood panel, a thorough palpation (especially back and hips) and an x-ray if your vet has any doubts about the palpation. considering how much this is affecting you, it will be well worth the money, and if there is a problem early intervention is usually the key to getting something under control or cured. i know it seems to you that this all came on after things changed with the garage, but that could be a coincidence.
if normal-level medical investigation has really ruled out all the likely sources of pain and you remain confident that the problem is behavioral/psychological, remember that you cairn is very connected to you (even when it doesn't seem like it). if you are stressing out over his stressing out, he will be stressed out over you stressing out over him stressing out. it is hard to break these kinds of cycles, but since we are the humans it is usually our responsibility to do it. examine your feelings carefully and see if there is a way to keep yourself calm, and perhaps get the both of you distracted with new activities and new scenes. this is hard to do, but remember that it isn't all about you looking at him and his behaviors. it is a mutual thing, and we can always makes things better or worse for our dogs by checking our own feelings. and remember that cairns respond to what you feel and what you mean, not to what you do and say!
my dog went through a year or more of increasing floor licking, which eventually became not as extreme as you describe, but pretty repetitive. the probable cause, we now know, was pain --in his case neurological pain, but any kind of pain can cause behavior like this. when my dog's pain subsided, so did the behavior. i'm assuming that your vet made a thorough search for any possible sources of physical pain before prescribing anxiety meds. teeth? stomach/gastric? back or hips? if you are not satisfied that this was done, it is worth the time and money to make sure that your dog has had a thorough physical --a blood panel, a thorough palpation (especially back and hips) and an x-ray if your vet has any doubts about the palpation. considering how much this is affecting you, it will be well worth the money, and if there is a problem early intervention is usually the key to getting something under control or cured. i know it seems to you that this all came on after things changed with the garage, but that could be a coincidence.
if normal-level medical investigation has really ruled out all the likely sources of pain and you remain confident that the problem is behavioral/psychological, remember that you cairn is very connected to you (even when it doesn't seem like it). if you are stressing out over his stressing out, he will be stressed out over you stressing out over him stressing out. it is hard to break these kinds of cycles, but since we are the humans it is usually our responsibility to do it. examine your feelings carefully and see if there is a way to keep yourself calm, and perhaps get the both of you distracted with new activities and new scenes. this is hard to do, but remember that it isn't all about you looking at him and his behaviors. it is a mutual thing, and we can always makes things better or worse for our dogs by checking our own feelings. and remember that cairns respond to what you feel and what you mean, not to what you do and say!
Edited by pkcrossley, 17 December 2011 - 05:49 AM.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:31 AM
Jayne, in thinking about this overnight, it occurred to me that perhaps your alarm system could be using some type of radio waves to operate and those waves might be above human hearing level but within the range of your dog's ability to hear--might want to discuss with the those who installed or maintain the alarm. High pitched sounds, if constant could, I think effect a dog's behavior. I know the alarm at my MIL's house is not "hard wired" from the sensor to the alarm itself so it has to operate on some kind of electronic wave transmission. Just a thought.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:16 PM
Thanks to both of your for your answers - the radio frequency on the alarm idea is a good one, the garage is not hard wired, so perhaps there is a signal / noise that occurs all the time. I will check that out and make sure it is turned off asap (as soon as I figure out how to do it safely without the danger of triggering it!)
As far as my own behavior, I realized that last weekend - that I am perhaps making this worse, or at least contributing to it. I am trying to be much more "light hearted" with my corrections and acting as if it's not such a big deal as I think it is. Today was a good day, up till now. I got had to go in to work / do errands, and I took him along. There was NO floor licking at all until I left him home alone and when I returned he started. He's now leashed to my belt as I sit here and type. Threw the ball for him, but he was not having it, so he's now stopped, he seems to stop when we are in proximity, but won't be held or snuggled. It's hard cause I just found out today, I can't treat him (no treats) as he's on the science diet medicated dog food. This could also be pain related as pointed out, and the diet is part of the treatment for bladder crystals. So I have a lot of evidence, need a Sherlock Holmes to find out for real. Sure wish he could talk. I dreamed one night that he did talk, and it was a hilarious dream, in it he spoke and I was in great anticipation. Then he said "Jayne, I would like a ham sandwich" So, there's my light hearted story in the midst of all my drama! I thank you all for your great suggestions, they have got me out of my own vicious circle and given me more to think about and to do that's positive. He did have a quick checkup and blood and urine, but I will get him in for a more thorough work up, as well as totally disable the garage alarm as soon as I can. Thanks everyone. I will post when I have an update on Ted. And again, I can't say thank you enough. Most people, when I explain this stuff, don't get it to the extent that you all did.
As far as my own behavior, I realized that last weekend - that I am perhaps making this worse, or at least contributing to it. I am trying to be much more "light hearted" with my corrections and acting as if it's not such a big deal as I think it is. Today was a good day, up till now. I got had to go in to work / do errands, and I took him along. There was NO floor licking at all until I left him home alone and when I returned he started. He's now leashed to my belt as I sit here and type. Threw the ball for him, but he was not having it, so he's now stopped, he seems to stop when we are in proximity, but won't be held or snuggled. It's hard cause I just found out today, I can't treat him (no treats) as he's on the science diet medicated dog food. This could also be pain related as pointed out, and the diet is part of the treatment for bladder crystals. So I have a lot of evidence, need a Sherlock Holmes to find out for real. Sure wish he could talk. I dreamed one night that he did talk, and it was a hilarious dream, in it he spoke and I was in great anticipation. Then he said "Jayne, I would like a ham sandwich" So, there's my light hearted story in the midst of all my drama! I thank you all for your great suggestions, they have got me out of my own vicious circle and given me more to think about and to do that's positive. He did have a quick checkup and blood and urine, but I will get him in for a more thorough work up, as well as totally disable the garage alarm as soon as I can. Thanks everyone. I will post when I have an update on Ted. And again, I can't say thank you enough. Most people, when I explain this stuff, don't get it to the extent that you all did.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:47 PM
Since Ted has crystals, your vet might want to do an xray for bladder stones. I just read that the average age for struvite stones is 2.9 years, and they can certainly cause discomfort.
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:33 PM
I think you could use ths info: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html
And Idaho's supposition is correct, radio waves or EMF emissions can affect pets, depends on the level and sensitivity of the pet. (EMF is a form of static electricity, like from T-storms.)
And Idaho's supposition is correct, radio waves or EMF emissions can affect pets, depends on the level and sensitivity of the pet. (EMF is a form of static electricity, like from T-storms.)
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:34 AM
Reading your story reminds me somewhat of my golden retriever, not my cairn. Not sure if it is similar or not. Mason is 11. About 3 years ago, for unknown reasons, any time he hears a beep, he will begin to pace and pant uncontrollably. When I receive a text message, that sends him going crazy. I always worry that the smoke alarm battery will die when I am not home and that low, intermittent beep would drive him out of his mind. He then decided that storms are horrible. He will pace for hours, even after the storm is over. We have tried many things-pet calm, pet ease, vet meds, but nothing much helped. We bought a thundershirt to use for any stressful situation. It does seem to take the edge off whenever he becomes upset. Also, when he is overly stressed, I give him melatonin (suggested by a trainer). That really helps. I am not sure if my story helps or is relevant but I know what you are going through. Good luck....
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:32 AM
i really like idaho's idea too. some people are sensitive to EMF, and some people hear up to 20Mhz and so are bothered by noises that other people don't hear. most houses today are EMF jungles, it is not surprising that more dogs are not checking in for psychiatric help.
if simply disconnecting the garage alarm/monitor doesn't help, i wonder if you can go on a one-day EMF moratorium (i personally couldn't last longer than that --i mean keep the fridge and the heating system, as well as incandescent lights, but turn off fluorescent lights and everything else) and see what happens. your own aches and pains might go away.
if simply disconnecting the garage alarm/monitor doesn't help, i wonder if you can go on a one-day EMF moratorium (i personally couldn't last longer than that --i mean keep the fridge and the heating system, as well as incandescent lights, but turn off fluorescent lights and everything else) and see what happens. your own aches and pains might go away.
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:23 PM
MegsMom, on 17 December 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:
I think you could use ths info: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html
And Idaho's supposition is correct, radio waves or EMF emissions can affect pets, depends on the level and sensitivity of the pet. (EMF is a form of static electricity, like from T-storms.)
And Idaho's supposition is correct, radio waves or EMF emissions can affect pets, depends on the level and sensitivity of the pet. (EMF is a form of static electricity, like from T-storms.)
I'm a little late in the game here but...
You guys are so smart. EMF can cause symptoms in humans like auditory hallucinations, paranoia. This is often discussed as reasons people believe their house is haunted! Electricity interference!
Imagine how much less interference it would take to effect such a small creature!
My friebd installs alarms, both hard wired and wireless, he said it's not a known issue, but he said he doesn't see why it couldn't be. He suggested powering down your entire system, not just the garage (disconnecting the backup battery too, to prevent it dying and you needing a service call and an expensive replacement) and give the dog a few days alarm system free and see if there's any change.
Good luck!
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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:50 AM
Gosh, I sure hope you can figure out what is causing little Teddy's licking. Like others have said I would ask the vet to make sure he is not in pain. It also sounds like the behavior could be related to the his fear of the alarm. Does his licking behavior cause any injury to his tongue?
Also, for Meggie: I had not heard that EMF could induce auditory hallucinations and paranoia in individuals. If you have a link to any article discussing this, I would love to see it. I am very interested in the subject. Thanks!
Also, for Meggie: I had not heard that EMF could induce auditory hallucinations and paranoia in individuals. If you have a link to any article discussing this, I would love to see it. I am very interested in the subject. Thanks!
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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:01 PM
The pet columnist at Psychology Today agrees with those suggesting the modern lifestyle may be to blame for some odd behaviors.
http://www.psycholog...canine-behavior
George
http://www.psycholog...canine-behavior
George
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