10 replies to this topic

[Pingber]

Maggie Mae just will be pinned down ... we've held her on her side for thirty seconds, one hnad on her chest, other set of fingers near her neck ... not hurting her though.... and she struggles, growls etc, but NEVER gives that sigh of "you're the boss". In fact, when we release her, she is very likely to wheel around and nip, like she's saying "so there". Are we doing this right? Somewhere on the forum, someone said it could take almost three minutes before their pup would give in.

Phil

 resize_004.jpg (42.01K)
Number of downloads: 11  resize_001.jpg (41.33K)
Number of downloads: 9  resize_002.jpg (46.1K)
Number of downloads: 10  resize_003.jpg (40.22K)
Number of downloads: 10

[Idaho Cairns]

In my opinion yes, just so long as you immediately "re-roll" her when she nips at you after she gets up. The "roll" is always more effective when you combine it with close eye contact and a firm "No!" command. If you wait a bit, you can feel and see the dog "relax" submit to you--the key being, will the dog stay in the position if you release the neck pressure? These dogs can be stubborn and they like to keep the upper hand which that last little nip reaction is all about. It does come down to your willingness to persist past their instinctive need to rule their own world. I have always believed that what this technique represents is a natural act to the dogs, something they understand instinctively--it is a "domination" that you must have over the dog which carries forth as they mature. If they associate the "No!" command with the roll, eventually the verbal command will be enough to control the dog.
Here is a perfect example from the time when our very stubborn and determined Bonnie was a pup--the picture looks funny but make no mistake, this is a classic example of dominance from the older dog to try and "teach" Bonnie who was "Alpha" in this house.

Edited by Idaho Cairns, 15 December 2011 - 10:16 AM.

[tlwtheq]

It's been such a long time since we had a young Cairn around the house my commentary would be outdated.
I just had to say what a cutie Maggie Mae is. That appearance can be deceiving at times, eh?

[kjwarnold]

We still pin Kirby down if he's bullying Packy and being mean. The point being, he's not in charge, I am! When he's after Packy, it does take several minutes before he'll calm down and relax, giving in. If it was just a matter of him doing something wrong when he was a puppy and we pinned him, he would have given up in 20 seconds flat. Now it's a dominance thing with Packy and he still forgets that I'm the boss of Packy, not Kirby.

Keep at it and don't release Maggie Mae until she gives him. If you let her up before, she'll think she won. I'm guessing that's why she bounces up and nips at you. And yes, I'd pin her back down when she does that. Oh, and I pin them on their backs. That's really their submissive position.

Good luck and stick with it!

[jo_]

With Jagger I'd have her pinned on her side with one hand on her chest, one around her neck (just enough to hold her, never hurting) and I'd get right in her face, looking directly in the eyes with firm"no" or "no bite". Sometimes after her submitting sigh and a release, she'd go right back at it, with even more conviction. Again, I'd pin her down, this time for longer. Sometimes I'd have to do this 3 times for several minutes each time before the stubborn little thing would finally give up.

Jagger's favourite play position is on her back so the side works better with her.

Now, when she doesn't listen the first time I'll make her look me right in the eye (even if it means guiding her muzzle)...she knows I mean business if I insist we make eye contact when I'm talking in a firm voice. It's as if I can hear her saying in a defeated voice "Oh...alright then".

Edited by jo_, 15 December 2011 - 12:22 PM.

[Lynn in TN]

I love the new pictures of Maggie Mae.
The trick to any discipline is to have no guilt and no remorse. If you feel the least bit uncomfortable about it She will know it and it won't work. Make sure you mean it. It may take several minutes. These are stubborn little dogs.

[finncaraid]

The roll/pinning never worked with Finn. He either thought you were playing or would become even more determined. I didn't want to encourage that determination & I wanted him to do what I asked so I went with positive reinforcement training. Combined with daily command training, he quickly understood the significance of "Good Boy!". What we'd do is tell him no & when he stopped, we'd tell him good boy. If he was really out of control, like jumping all over me, biting, I'd just keep setting him on the floor. If that didn't work, I'd leave the room, go somewhere he couldn't follow until he calmed down. It seemed to teach him impulse control & what was acceptable behavior without an argument or contest of wills. At 17 months, he generally stops when he hears no the first time. We seldom have a problem with him ignoring direction, he doesn't display the classical terrier stubbornness, he's always happy to do what you ask & we've never had a problem with dominance/who's in charge, so I'd say this training method, at least with Finn, worked.

[lindasue]

Pegi responded well w/the pinning down. If Maggie Mae comes up nipping put her on her side again for a longer time. I'm not sure 30 seconds is long enough for her to get it. Now all I have to do is ask Pegi is she needs to go on her side and she backs off. Smart little devils...if only our kids would get it that quickly...

[Dempsy's Mom]

Maggie Mae is the sweetest.

[pkcrossley]

i like maggie's spirit. i understand the theory of pinning and i know from discussions here that it usually gets results. i don't know how to do it, and never found it necessary because there are other ways that will work with some dogs, and i was lucky enough that my redmon responded to social correction (shunning, time out, expressions of unhappiness). he might have responded just as quickly or more quickly to something like pinning, but i just never used it. my point: even a method that works on 98% of dogs will not work on 100%. most dogs will probably respond well to, say, four methods of achieving X, but some dogs might only respond to two. pinning is an important part of the the arsenal, but you have to be ready to try something else if either you or your dog just don't get it.

[Terrier lover]

I can't really say that pinning worked totally... we did use it on Jock with mixed results. Shunning him after bad behaviour seemed to really make him think. It was always met with him following me around, looking concerned and trying to jump up and give kisses. Now at 10 1/2 yrs of age when he turns really grouchy (ie stripping his coat after he has decided enough is enough) I just put on a soft cloth muzzle and continue like nothing has changed, no fuss, no harsh words. He lies there like a log and after I am finished and the muzzle is removed, we are the best of friends again.