24 replies to this topic

[cairnrescueleague]

http://flyingdogpres...ent/view/42/51/

[ScruffynMag]

Thank you for that article, it's very informative and well written. I like the way she puts the scenario into 'human' terms, it makes perfect sense.

Edited by ScruffynMag, 02 September 2010 - 05:13 AM.

[pkcrossley]

GREAT article. it has the answers to so many problems that come up here. very intelligent and compassionate.

Edited by pkcrossley, 02 September 2010 - 05:45 AM.

[bradl]

Great article. Thanks for posting it. I especially like the focus on the human's role in managing environments and interaction.

In earthdog it is very common for judges in the master class to ask each of set of bracemates to make sure their dogs have 'met' before running so as to avoid any problems off-lead on the hunt-up. New handlers often seem to think that means the dogs are supposed to stick their faces into each other's space and shake hands or something. Arghh - practically a guarantee of a kerfuffle for all but the most omega dog. I prefer to 'meet' by keeping our dogs on leash at our sides, well away from each other, while the *handlers* shake hands and make small talk for a moment or two. That's all the introduction the dogs need before a hunt - believe me, they are checking each other out sideways. Fortunately most dogs want to hunt so bad that that's all they care about anyway.

[steffi_far_away]

This was great, thanks for sharing.

[Terrier lover]

Thank you so much for posting this. Jock is considered by some of our neighbours in our off leash park as "aggressive" towards other dogs. I have never blamed him for being that way... as we constantly are being approached by foolish people who think their off leash, out of control dogs, that have no respect for Jock's space or mine , bounce up to us at full speed. All the while the owner is commenting how friendly their dog is (and the dog is totally ignoring its owners commands) ! Jock at that point is snarling at the end of his leash... the other owner horrified that I have such a mean dog.

I rarely have issues walking Jock when a well behaved dog is quiet, and respectful and doesnt invade his space. Even huge dogs like newfoundlanders dont bother him because the owner has taught them how to behave. The very worst problem we have are with labs and goldens... and of course their owners who think their dogs are so sweet and well behaved. I wish I could post the whole article at the park

Edited by Terrier lover, 02 September 2010 - 07:59 AM.

[Idaho Cairns]

The author is absolutely correct in the scenario she describes. Our dogs are frequently in social situations with other dogs--different dogs as we travel about and stay in campgrounds and the only situation where I must watch my dogs carefully is when there is an excited puppy around--neither of my Cairns will tolerate a puppy--especially a large breed puppy. Just this past weekend we had an RV behind us with a 15 week old German Shepherd pup that was a real handful--fortunately the dog's owner was a responsible sort and would not let her dog close to my two. When that puppy was out, pulling at it's leash and trying to get close to my dogs, both of the Cairns followed it's every move--I could tell there would be trouble if the puppy got near because both of mine have been batted by large breed pups with those flying feet and they do not take it well.
It is amazing the difference in Behavior of my dogs around adult animals and puppies so I know to be extra careful when a young dog is around--my Cairns do NOT appreciate the mauling that comes from exited young dogs and I know they will snarl and nip if engaged by one. Being approached by grown dogs is a no brainer--lots of butt sniffing and then it is on to whatever fun is at hand.
Every Cairn we have had from the most aggressive to the most docile have had this attitude toward puppy Behavior so I know to watch for that situation and am especially careful at dog parks where there are no leashes. I will inform the owner of a puppy what is liable to happen if I see a problem developing--"yes it is good to have a place where your pup can socialize with older dogs but these dogs do not and will not tolerate an excited puppy that gets too close so proceed with caution."
This may be the only situation where I get uncomfortable with my dogs--usually in all other social situations, my dogs are predictable and stable as rocks--no teeth, no growls, no problem. Get a puppy in the mix and look out.
Good article that may help explain some of your dog's out of the ordinary Behavior. Cairns fancy themselves as classic terriers and nothing brings out that classic terrier faster than an excited puppy with no sense of Cairnitude! Now you know. Thanks for putting this up.

[Terrier lover]

Mmmm Idaho you bring up an interesting point about puppies. We are thinking of getting another Cairn puppy but are hesitant because of a previous experience. Last year we bought a Silkie Terrier 12 week old MALE puppy. It was a nightmare! The puppy was the puppy from hell... very aggressive towards Jock (the pup also bit me drawing blood). Jock tried his best beside killing the silly thing to make it behave as a pup should.. after 5 days of totally fried nerves (Jock and ours, we returned the pup to the breeders). It was a very upsetting time for all of us, me crying all the way back when returning the puppy (from hell ). Now we would like to get a little girl Cairn (Jock does not care for most male dogs but loves other female terriers) but am really worried that we will have problems with Jock getting very upset. He is 9 yrs old and does have health issues, so I dont want to stress him out. Comments?

[Holly&me]

Interesting article and worth other people reading so hope you don't mind I have posted it on the UK Cairn Forum.

Holly, who is a very laid back Cairn, will tell other dogs, in particular young bouncy pups, off if they jump all over her and invade her space by a growl as if to say go away - but then ignores them. However, if their owner ignores that growl and does not remove the pup I always make sure that Holly is moved on before she gets too annoyed. I do not think she would actually be aggresive and fight but try to ensure that she is not in a situation where she is likely to feel she has to be. She also likes to greet all dogs she meets but I check with the owner first in case the other dog is not as friendly.

[Idaho Cairns]

After I wrote the previous, I wondered if I wouldn't get the precise response you just made! The question of bringing a younger dog in with an older one is a good one. Interestingly, we have never had a problem with this and I don't know if it is a matter of the older dog "sensing" that a new puppy in the house is a permanent situation that they have to live with but every time we have had no problem whatsoever with the older dog and the puppy getting along and we always have females so it is the same gender. There is no jealousy, no food protecting, nothing.
Along that same line, when our kids have brought their rambunctious pups INTO THE HOUSE there have been few problems--one of our kids visited with a Bull Mastiff pup which was quite "handy"--those big old paws were flying and our dogs simply stayed out of the way--no growls, teeth bearing, nothing.
I think they just know that these puppies are family and they have to tolerate it.
I have a neat video of the second evening of our Bonnie with Sammi--Bonnie is trying to get Sammi's chewy and the patience that Sammi accords the puppy is just amazing. Let's see if I can get it up here.
As I have said many time on this forum--I think bringing a Cairn pup into the house is easy--it certainly has been for us. The best part is that the pup seems to model on the older dog--it just learns all the right lessons quicker from the older dog. Housebreaking is easier, Behavior easier.
We started with a calm and quiet rescue and it seems like every dog brought into the home as a pup since have been quiet calm Cairns.
I would like to think it is because of my great ability as an owner but in my heart of hearts it really is because of modeling from one dog to the next.
All bets are off under the situation you describe--a super hyper pup might not do as well with an older dog.

[kjwarnold]

Okay, preface this by saying I haven't read the article yet, but I did want to comment on bringing a puppy into the house with an older dog.

9 yrs. old isn't all that old for Cairns; you'll find lots of Cairns that are well into their teens. But if your dog has health issues, that might make them act a little older. Now our experience. We had a 16 yr. old male Cairn (Willie) that had hearing issues when we brought Packy into our home. It worked out perfectly, other than us forgetting how much work a puppy was after 16 years! Anyway, our breeder was familiar with Willie and knew he was a more submissive, laid back dog, as well as being an "older gentleman." She steered us toward Packy, one of the quieter puppies in the litter, feeling that he'd get along better than a more aggressive puppy. She was right and they got along fine. A few years later when Packy was 4, we were ready for another puppy and again, knowing our dogs and us, she knew we could handle a little more rambunctious puppy and we ended up with Kirby. The morale is to work with a good breeder who gets to know you and your existing dog(s) and family. Bringing a puppy into your home can work just fine and maybe even give the older dog a little lift!

Now I'm off to read the article...

A few minutes later - great article!

Edited by kjwarnold, 02 September 2010 - 08:56 AM.

[hheldorfer]

Great article! I'm going to pay more attention to the canine interactions at the dog park. Very interesting.

[sanford]

Idaho Cairns, on 02 September 2010 - 08:24 AM, said:

I have a neat video of the second evening of our Bonnie with Sammi--Bonnie is trying to get Sammi's chewy and the patience that Sammi accords the puppy is just amazing. Let's see if I can get it up here.

Nice video! It's fascinating to see the interaction of your cairns... And you say that was only the second evening with Bonnie & Sammi together? Very impressive! Makes me realize what I might be missing, having just one. Hmmm...

[Idaho Cairns]

sanford, on 02 September 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:

Idaho Cairns, on 02 September 2010 - 08:24 AM, said:

I have a neat video of the second evening of our Bonnie with Sammi--Bonnie is trying to get Sammi's chewy and the patience that Sammi accords the puppy is just amazing. Let's see if I can get it up here.

Nice video! It's fascinating to see the interaction of your cairns... And you say that was only the second evening with Bonnie & Sammi together? Very impressive! Makes me realize what I might be missing, having just one. Hmmm...

Yes, it was the evening after we picked Bonnie up at the Salt Lake Airport. Our Sammi has always been a gentle giant but as I filmed this, I was really expecting her to react-especially on the over the back thing. Of course she had gone four months without a companion after Toots died so maybe she was ready. Interestingly, Sammi was the same little "in your face" puppy with Toots--so maybe she realized her Karma had come around.

[cairnrescueleague]

Someone posted the link to the article on Facebook, which is where I saw it, so I'm sure it's OK to post it on the UK list.

Ironically, we've been contacted by someone wanting to surrender their 3yo female cairn because they got a black lab puppy, and now that the puppy weighs 50 lbs, they say the cairn is being aggressive toward him, although when pressed for details, they say she hides under the couch and snarks out at him.

Several years ago, I took care of a 70 lb American bulldog/chow mix, and she was attacked twice by other dogs when I was walking her. The first time, a husky ran out of its yard and attacked her. I also had Cubby with me, so I lifted Cubby up on my shoulder and let Daisy handle the husky. Fortunately, the husky's owners were in their yard, so they were able to save their dog before too much damage was done. Daisy didn't really fight it though, she saw him coming and turned sideways to him and absorbed most of the first impact.

The second time, Daisy and I were in the park and I saw a woman come in with her medium-sized shepherd mix. The woman let if off leash, and I watched it make a beeline for Daisy. It was like watching a lion on the Serengeti, it ran all the way across the park on its belly, and there was nowhere we could go. Gave Daisy lots of time to prepare though, and again, her reactions were more defensive than aggressive. I almost lost it though when the woman came walking over and said - I think your dog has a problem with other dogs! HER dog was a dog no one liked, including all the dogs in the neighborhood. When she would walk it down the street, all the dogs would bark at it.