[Elentarien]

re the offleash issues. I will look into it more. I suppose I shouldn't be terribly surprised, as a lot of dogs seem to be the same way. But its good to know and if its not safe to leave them off, just in case. . .well, there are ways around that. Learning to clip on the leash right away, etc. I suppose getting a puppy will be training for me again too. You get so relaxed with what your older animals 'allow'. Our toy poodle has never had trouble with randomly taking off. But even now I couldn't say if thats the breed - or if its him. He's always been a bit of a whack-job that one and rather lives by his insecurities no matter how much we've worked with him. (The woman who sort of dumped him on us had him for several months and never let him down onto the floor. He was 'weird' when we got him - like he wasn't quite right in the head or something. He's improved, a fair bit, and acts more like a dog now. But he never quite got over that 'oddness'. And now he's sick with Grave's Disease, which makes him act stranger. The vet said that was from getting too many rabies shots too close together - from another vet!)

The colour change this is actually funny. Sounds like you can't really know what you'll get if they change like that. If thats the case, never mind. I'll go for personality and try to get a good dog for me whatever its colour. Maybe it will eventually change to what I want. Or not.

Actually I'm a little depressed now. I wrote to a local Cairn breeder to find out how much she sells her PET-quality pups for. *whimpers* She replied this morning and quoted $900-$1500 For a dog??? For a PET?? Whatever happened to 'you want a puppy? sure I've got a litter out back, come on through and take your pick!'? I was expecting $500-$600, plus spay/neuter, plus shots, plus license, plus a new collar and leash (we have old ones kicking around, but I don't think any of them are in particularly good shape), plus a new dog crate, since our old one is in pretty bad shape. All of which would probably add up to the $900. Looking at this much. . .ugh, I could cry. Not sure how I'm supposed to come up with *that* much for initial costs. And yes, I've already looked through the rescue pets again. 99.9% of them are large dogs. *sighs* Oh, well, I suppose at least I have a goal. If I can work up $2000 I can probably do it all. Ironically, the dog's monthly care probably won't take nearly as much. I can probably do that with the little bit I get now.

[sanford]

Re the financial aspect of buying a cairn...If you use the internet and look up Cairn rescue organizations, you'll find at least 2 or 3 that you could adopt from. Costs a lot less than buying from a breeder, but you have to meet their eligibilty criteria. That way, you'll spend a lot less & also save a dog's life!

[Autumn&Molly]

Based on my experience with Molly, I'd say they have to be leashed 100% of the time.

We have a big yard that is double-fenced - a 6ft wood fence, with a 4ft cyclone fence behind it. Within the first 2 weeks we had her, Molly escaped three times. We were scared, worried and so puzzled! How did she get out?? AH! The side of the yard that is adjacent to the neighbor's driveway only had the wood fence! Here she was finding the tiniest spaces under the fence, digging a little and - home free! We didn't think it were possible for her to fit under the fence, but she did! We dumped dirt/sand in all open spaces and collected large rocks to put in front of it. Now it is secured like Ft. Knox.

We got her when she was one year old. She was trained in many ways, but didn't seem comfortable walking on leash. She'd tug terribly. Once in the park she yanked the leash out my very strong husband's hand and took off. Another time she actually broke the buckle of her harness and took off. (Tip here: don't ever chase them. Wave a toy or treat or act injured. Run in the *opposite* direction. Make them think whatever you are doing is the most fun they'll ever have so they come back to YOU. I learned this very important tip from this forum!) Once when we were standing in line at the pet store cash register, the automatic doors opened and again she yanked so hard and unexpectedly and flew out the door. That was a nightmare. Now, whenever we bring her to the vet, groomer or pet store, anywhere there is a busy street/parking lot, she gets *carried* inside. Once inside, she is walked around on her leash. When we get close to the doors/register, one of us carries her out to the car. It is just less heart-attack inducing.

(Another tip that just came to mind (again from the great people on this forum!: just because they are little, don't be fooled by their strength. They are STRONG. Bradl posted a photo of a Cairn pulling a man on a cart - for a combined weight of 200lbs! Anyway, retractable leashes/leads should be bought for the "45lb" range instead of their actual weight range! VERY strong little doggies!)

Don't get too down about the cost. Keep checking the rescue websites and your local shelters. We got Molly from the Humane Society last March. Despite the escapades above, she is very sweet, funny, smart, calm (for a Cairn!), obedient (for a Cairn!), loving, darling and just gorgeous. In fact, I recently sent off a letter via the shelter to her former owners telling them that she is doing well and how much we love her. My point: she is just perfect, and she was a mere $200 to adopt her, which included spaying and microchip! Yes, we were *very* lucky to find a purebred, one year old Cairn at the "pound", but it can be done! Also, you'll surely save money following the advice of this forum. Had I know about it when we first got her, I wouldn't have wasted money on flimsy collars, thin leashes and various toys that she chewed through in about 2 seconds flat. LOL!

This post has been edited by Autumn&Molly: 06 February 2010 - 05:06 PM

[jodi0553]

A color series, as Tracy requested I've run in to the same questions from neighbors from fall to spring! Last fall he was the same color as the neighbor's puggle and by the spring he was so different!

three months dark brindle with black points:
 darkbrindle.jpg (30.12K)
Number of downloads: 6

1.5 years so light that people referred to him as "white" and "wheaten":
 deformed2.jpg (61.45K)
Number of downloads: 15

4 years dark silver brindle:
 IMG_2922.jpg (29.52K)
Number of downloads: 13

[BetsyNoodle]

I am a big believer in always keeping your Cairn on leash when not in fenced areas. Cairns have very high prey drive and most will chase almost anything, even if you are right there beside them. We live in an area that has a lot of deer, and Murphy undoubtedly would chase one into the hills if off leash. Even when on leash, he lunges at them like crazy when one crosses our path. It just isn't worth the potential heartbreak for me to take him off leash. I know you will hear from some people who feel they can trust their Cairns off leash, and that is fine for them. I do pet grief counseling in my spare time, and many dogs have been lost when they have suddenly darted across a busy street while off leash.

Like everyone else has said, color can really change over time. When we adopted Murphy he was a dark gray brindle, now he is very light gray. He even has some red in him!

I don't think of terriers as lap dogs, although Murphy will lie in our laps, especially at night when he is tired after playing. He is very affectionate, and does follow me from room to room, but he still has that independent streak (for instance, this morning he wanted to sit in "his" chair and would not come to me when he was called). But, Cairns are so amusing and charming that I believe they make wonderful pets. Murphy has been an absolute joy. He "talks" and "sings" and loves to play. He loves everybody, including strangers and children.

Re: lap dogs--My little Miniature Pinscher, Ralph, was the ultimate lap dog. I always told people, if he wasn't in my lap, he was trying to climb up into it. He adored me so much my family nicknamed him Rudy Valentino. If he could have had his way, he would have been with me all day. I miss him beyond all measure.

[bradl]

Another color comparison:

at 2:

at 8-ish:

[Idaho Cairns]

"Actually I'm a little depressed now. I wrote to a local Cairn breeder to find out how much she sells her PET-quality pups for. *whimpers* She replied this morning and quoted $900-$1500 For a dog??? For a PET?? Whatever happened to 'you want a puppy? sure I've got a litter out back, come on through and take your pick!'? I was expecting $500-$600, plus spay/neuter, plus shots, plus license, plus a new collar and leash (we have old ones kicking around, but I don't think any of them are in particularly good shape), plus a new dog crate, since our old one is in pretty bad shape. All of which would probably add up to the $900. Looking at this much. . .ugh, I could cry. Not sure how I'm supposed to come up with *that* much for initial costs. And yes, I've already looked through the rescue pets again. 99.9% of them are large dogs. *sighs* Oh, well, I suppose at least I have a goal. If I can work up $2000 I can probably do it all. Ironically, the dog's monthly care probably won't take nearly as much. I can probably do that with the little bit I get now." Elentarien


I understand your concern about the price of a nice Cairn puppy but let me suggest something to you that you might not be considering. If you look at the inherent "value" of buying a puppy from a good "hobby" breeder, the cost difference between $600 and $1000 for good Cairn puppy is really not much of an issue. A good breeder will sell you a solid and healthy dog that should be long lived and a joy to own. Divide the $400 difference by 15-18 years and the cost to you over those years will break down to $25-$40 a year, really a small price to pay for the joy these little dogs will bring you.
I did not always believe in paying such high prices for a "quality" puppy until I had experience in paying a bit more to get precisely what I wanted from a good "hobby" breeder. The dog came to me healthy and well socialized to humans and human touch and she has been an absolute joy to be around from day one. The breeder sent me a dog that has needed virtually no vet care other than the routine shots and spaying fees that I would have incurred with a less expensive dog as well--more importantly she actually shows her good breeding both physically and socially for a year now. Knowing what I know now, if the breeder had asked twice the price for this dog, I would gladly pay the price.
I think if you set a $1000.00 budget for obtaining a good Cairn you will find you have many options. If you search hard enough, do the homework, ask for references from other buyers, comparison shop and you should find exactly what you want. Some breeders clearly ask a dear price for these dogs, almost impossible prices for most of us to pay but they are truly breeding an exceptional product--however there is a tier of breeder that are producing pet quality Cairns that are also superb dogs--give yourself enough room price wise and I think you will eventually be glad you did--think about what that extra $40.00 a year will eventually buy you in terms of solid, high quality breeding.

This post has been edited by Idaho Cairns: 07 February 2010 - 12:41 PM

[Sandi16]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but the Cairns in the movie Inkheart were Westies dyed black because of copyright issues with the Wizard of Oz movie.

Louie is a great companion dog. He loves to be with us, me especially. He follows me everywhere, he sits next to me always and loves to snuggle with me. Yet, he is a defective cairn in most ways. Hates water, has like zero prey drive (he was scared of the hamster) never bolts (our gate was open once and he never left) comes on command even outside, and has no sense of adventure what so ever.

We got Cuddled a little under 3 weeks and at six I thought her "old age" would go well with Louie who is not quite two. She is a true cairn. High prey drive, independent, adventurous, and can and will bolt if given a chance (had to chase her around the neighborhood) yet, she is a joy in her own way. She's kind of like a cat as in when she chooses to give you love you're flattered by the affection.

[Elentarien]

AHAHAH I love those colour change photos. Thanks. Its like a 'dog of another colour'. Guess you wouldn't get bored with how they look.

Ok, I've started looking for rescues nearby. So far no luck. I've found a few breeders, but *NO* Cairn rescues in Alberta. I suppose I could call the 'general' rescue organizations in the area and ask if they knew of anything, but I will probably have to wait until I am closer to being ready to get the dog.

Actually, you have a point about how they are worth it, even at that price. My initial reaction was that I could get a good computer for that much, but then, realized, thats not a good idea - even a computer goes out of date within 4 years and a dog would (or should) last quite a bit more than that. I guess the issue is more that. . .even what I was expecting to have to pay was a lot all at once. Finding its so much higher sort of pushes it up into the realm of impossibility. Or at least, it FEELS impossible. I mean. . .while I can support the dog on a normal basis, that really is a LOT for starting up. However - I will start saving. Hopefully I can find a job or a work soon so I can start earning a bit more a bit more regularly. Heh

And yes, the whole off-leash thing. . .as long as I know ahead of time, it can be worked with. Its just a matter of its always nice to have a dog that doesn't need a leash. On the other hand. . .its getting harder to find places where you are ALLOWED to have them off leash anyway, so we may as well just roll with it.

So, I have yet a new question for you all. I wrote to a couple breeders to ask them a few questions - and one breeder had one reply and the other had the totally opposite. Eeks. So now I'm asking here.

I have 'caged' pets. Currently 9 doves, one chinchilla and a degu. But sometimes I also have mice, or hamsters. They are *always* kept in sturdy 'catproof' cages, and never allowed to run with the cats or dog. For. . .obvious reasons. *coughs* My cats have always been very good about these. (Apart from canaries escaping when the cat's around. . .that never works well. But anyway. . .) and ignore the larger ones. The only ones they've ever been unable to deal with were the mice. I guess you just can't train mice out of cats. But even then they were still good and didn't try to 'break the cage' open or anything. They'd just camp out on the cage and watch (or jump if the mouse jumped). All in all it was satisfactory. I didn't 'trust' the cats with them, and the cats didn't force the issue. They just waited for an opportunity which, most of the time I didn't allow to arise.

Are Cairns about the same? I know they are/were 'ratters', but can they be taught to leave the small animals alone (at least as far as leaving the cages alone) so that the caged pets are not in danger if they're in their cages where they belong? Or is having a terrier and caged pets just out of the question entirely?

One breeder told me it would work, so long as the puppy was socialized and trained, the other said absolutely not, that her dogs never allow caged pets to be in the house. So. . .whats a more accurate version of this?

My own idea tends to be if I can get a young puppy, it can be trained. Granted, you can't train the instinct out, any more than you can a cat, but they can at least learn to not bother the caged animals and live peaceably with them. I mean, if the cats can be taught. . .can't the terriers?

Thanks! I really appreciate all this input. Its helping me form a better idea/expectation of where I'm headed.

*hugs to all*

Btw, I'm laughing my head off at the dyed westie. Poor thing. Copyright issues on the breed of dog? That. . .is . . .pathetic. Really. But it explains why I liked the dog. I'd say I'd go with that, except westies only come in white. Darn it. But thats ok. Cairns are just as adorable. I found a book of knitting patterns for doggy sweaters today at the library and got it out. It has the CUTEST cairn in a sweater. (Do they actually NEED sweaters? Should I get knitting? No, don't worry. If they do, I'll wait till I have the proper measurements of my own.)

[bradl]

Elentarien, on 08 February 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

Actually, you have a point about how they are worth it, even at that price. My initial reaction was that I could get a good computer for that much, but then, realized, thats not a good idea - even a computer goes out of date within 4 years and a dog would (or should) last quite a bit more than that.

It's a dated (really dated!) article, but James Gorman had a cute piece on this dilemma: The Mac vs The Cairn Terrier.

Regarding critters: puppies can be socialized to a lot of things. I generally think of it like this, though: any given Cairn might get along just fine with a cat/gerbil/hamster whatever, but you can't hold it against the dog if it does kill a critter. So if doing so would be a 'deal breaker' and result in rehoming the dog, don't get the dog in the first place.

If you are able and willing to completely control the environment so that the dog simply doesn't have access to situations that can turn out badly for the critters, then sure. It's no different than having a dog with infants or toddlers -- YOU are in charge of maintaining order; it is not the dog's job to read human minds and meet our unrealistic expectations.

Just my opinion, etc.

[Elentarien]

bradl, on 08 February 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

Regarding critters: puppies can be socialized to a lot of things. I generally think of it like this, though: any given Cairn might get along just fine with a cat/gerbil/hamster whatever, but you can't hold it against the dog if it does kill a critter. So if doing so would be a 'deal breaker' and result in rehoming the dog, don't get the dog in the first place.

If you are able and willing to completely control the environment so that the dog simply doesn't have access to situations that can turn out badly for the critters, then sure. It's no different than having a dog with infants or toddlers -- YOU are in charge of maintaining order; it is not the dog's job to read human minds and meet our unrealistic expectations.

Just my opinion, etc.

rotflol Cute article. VERY outdated, as you say, but the point is still valid.

Ok, thats basically what I was figuring. Roughly the same as a cat (in that regard, that is). I mean, I have cats (well, cat now. . .-sigh-) and I love the little furry rodent pets. I knew when I started getting the rodents that if anything happened, you can't blame the cat. The cat is just doing what a cat is preprogrammed to do and you can't get them NOT to hunt. However, that being said, the cats were socialized to the rodents in their cage and not allowed to bother them much. They learned fairly quickly, even our older adoptee cat - that the cage animals are no-no. I've always known if one gets out - its probably my fault, 1, and 2, you can't ask the cat not take the opportunity to do what it does. However, we did strike the 'happy balance', so to speak. The cats don't try to 'break' the cage to make the rodents escape. They might sit outside and watch, but they never try to force their way in.

There was a minor problem when I had gerbils and my kitty (the one I just lost) would go after them through the 'vent' hole. But she could only reach so far, they'd just move out of range and she would go back to watching. She didn't try to force things. She was a serious mouser too. Even now, our adoptee kitty - though he DID force his way into one cage and kill our one tame, pet bird (that was an awful night, finding that. Ugh!), we yelled at him, and basically ignored him for a few hours - and he seems to have gotten the point. He watches the birds some, he watches the chin and degu, but he's never tried to force the cages again. Even now, I see him playing around the cage and when I look he's spending more time playing with the pieces of hay sticking out than after the critters. But I still wouldn't trust him if one got loose.

However, I CAN leave the house and know that he isn't going to go break into the cages the moment my back is turned. Even if I do make sure he's not around when I open the cage and let one of them out. lol Thats all I ask of the Cairn as well. Don't be a nuisance if they are in their cages where they belong. Don't force your way into the cage or break it so they do escape so you can get them. If one happens to get out through their fault or mine, and you happen to do what you do, well, I'll be upset (of course - why wouldn't you be?) but it doesn't mean rehoming, it just means more training and more care taken to prevent the issue from repeating.

But yeah. I mean, if they are so bad they can't even be trained. . .but that doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, and don't worry about rehoming. My family seriously believes in 'forever homes'. You take an animal on, you are responsible for it for the rest of its life. Period. I suppose there are extreme cases sometimes where you can't. The animal gets sick or something and has to be put down early. . .but even then, you make sure that its put down humanely, not allowed to suffer and wonder if its been abandoned.

Thats why I'm trying to get things answered NOW, so if there is a 'deal breaker' in these dogs somewhere, I find out now before I get it, and can change direction without harming the dog. Or myself for that matter. I'm not attached to it yet. And I'm perfectly willing to spend the time socializing the dog to the other animals in the house. And yes, aware that sometimes things just happen. Though, logically speaking. . .I have the same issue if I get another cat. Its just. . .this breeder made it sound more dire than I expected. Like they *CAN'T* be trained, and whatever caged pets in the house are there - if a Cairn comes in they'll be killed. Um. . .

Actually, from what I'm hearing, in general, the Cairns sound very much like the canine version of a feline. lol Except perhaps they are higher energy.

[kintra]

I've gotten into this a bit late and have only skimmed some of the posts. I apologize if I seem to only be repeating (affirming?) what others have said.

While I personally have never bred a litter, I work very close with a local Cairn breeder who has been in the breed for nearly 20 years and has a well established kennel. She produces very few litters and only when there is a belief that it will in some way improve upon the breed. The show quality dogs are shown and have received some very high merits. I don't bat an eye when I hear a pet quality dog from a reputable breeder is in the $1000 range. These litters aren't just a "well I have a dog, you have a bitch...lets see what they can do together"...they are carefully planned out over the course of months and even years. Even charging around $1000 per puppy, a reputable breeder is lucky to even break even in the end. There will be health guarentees with the puppy and the breeder will stand behind anything that happens.

As others have said, Cairn Rescues and Shelters are a great place to look for a family pet! If you are interested in an older dog (not necessarily a senior citizen, but not a puppy), often times reputable breeders will place older dogs in homes to be family pets and the price is lower.

BetsyNoodle, I had to smile at your Min Pin comments. My little girl is also the ultimate lap dog. When I'm home, she is always right beside me or cuddled up on my lap. If I was ever gone to a show for the weekend, she would wander around the house looking for me and would eventually just sit on my bed and wait for me to come back. A good friend of mine just rescued a Min Pin and she is the same way We all lucked out with our MinPins

[Sue G]

Regarding cost: I don't know if this in an option in your area, but I adopted Ozzy off of craigslist. They posted an adoption fee of $25, but when we met they knew I was a good person that would give him a lifetime of love and wouldn't take a dime from me. There are allot of pet "rehoming" ads in craigslist. Maybe I was lucky with Ozzy, but it was a good experience for me and the previous owners.

Regarding off leash: I was disappointed when it sank in that Ozzy could probably never be trusted off leash. My BC was completely trustworthy off leash and I really enjoyed that freedom. After having Ozzy for 5 months now, it really doesn't matter to me anymore. He has other wonderful qualities that I would take over the off leash thing any day.

Good luck!