27 replies to this topic

[Elentarien]

Hi, all.

I'm new here and have a question for those more familiar with this breed.

I have recently lost my companion - December 20th my little kitty died at 16 due to cancer. The whole process was quite traumatic for both of us and the ending was not the peaceful one I had hoped for. I'm still quite upset about it and miss her like mad. She was not just a pet to me, but a friend, and a bonded companion, so her loss was just as bad as losing my mother or a best friend. (no my mother's still alive, but I doubt her going could have hurt any more since I am not as close to her as I was to that cat. )

Anyway, I am *NOT* ready to get a new animal yet, not when I'm still struggling over her loss. But I'm already starting to feel the need for a new companion and am starting to look around to decide what it is I want to go for. Since 'free' puppies seem to be nearly impossible to find anymore, even for mutts, and even for a rescue dog I'm looking at several hundred dollars for the dog alone, never mind vet fees, I figured I may as well find something I actually want. Right? I would take a free mutt, if I could find one in a size I'm allowed to keep, but the one litter of free pups I actually found were HUGE farm puppies. Eeps! I live with my mother and she refuses to consider a large dog, even if I'm the one paying. And, since there's no point in causing a fuss, and I suppose a small dog may make a better companion in the long run and be more 'convenient' in size. . .I'll go with it.

Anyway, she wants me to look at a Westie, when I'm ready. I'm ok with that, but in truth, I've always loved the Cairns. At least. . .their looks. I mean, honestly, who can watch the Wizard of Oz or Inkheart (I think thats a cairn?) and NOT want that? Its adorable! But since I am needing a particular role to be filled, I want to make sure I'm looking in the right place before I start digging too deep.

I've done some reading and its said the Cairn is more 'independent'. How far does this independence go with them? Would this breed make a good companion dog to someone needing company and have a proper 'bond' to form? Or are they more into doing their own thing? Does anyone happen to know how the Westies fair in this area?

I'm not against the 'general' pets, as I call them. Those that are nice to have around, but don't really bond properly and form a proper friendship. We have a cat like that (he was a dumpee that we rescued and gave a home. He's much loved here, but apart from his separation anxiety, he loves everyone in the family and no one in particular. Its a bit frustrating if you need something a bit closer. We also have a toy poodle that lacks a proper bond. We are his 3rd and 5th home and he really doesn't care about any of us, but he's terrified my mom will leave him. Poor beastie. As far as I can tell, getting a baby right from its birth-home allows a proper bond to form, but once thats broken, they don't all reform that. Some might, but none of the ones I've encountered ever have.) and while he's loved to pieces, he just doesn't. . .fill that spot my kitty did. She LIKED to be with me. She would sit down here with me, or follow me upstairs. She came to be wherever I was and if she couldn't be on my lap, she liked to curl up nearby. If I was upset, she couldn't fix it, but she would come purr for me and try to make me feel better. I need someone else like that. Who just will be a friend, not a pet that wanders from person to person, and doesn't care if you're upset or not, or pulls away if you try to use its fur as a kleenex. Pets are easy to find. Companions, not so much.

Anyway, I'm hoping for a dog this time. I thought it might be a bit better for me, as I could take it with me when I go out, and it would encourage me to get out and walk more. Where as a kitty is indoors all the time and can't go outside with you. *sniffs* But question is, which breed is more likely to provide this sort of companionship?

Do Cairns like spending time with their people? Do they like being cudddled and will they sleep with you? Or are they all about doing their own thing? Are westies any different?

Also, how are the males vs the females? IE, I've had two male dogs in a row now (over the years) that have been very. . .er. . well, good dogs, but very independant. Not really caring about their people. They were all too happy to just go their own way, get their own way, and all in all, anything that happened was either all about them or not important at all. (Actually the male cat we have is very much the same attitude. Really quite self-absorbed. ) In my experience, females aren't like that. But then I hear things like the females are more self-centred and the males aren't. So how does this breed match up to that?

Thanks for the help! Hopefully by the time I feel ready to take on a new animal, I'll actually have a clue what I truly want to aim for. I guess there is something to be said for taking your time, huh?

[Holly&me]

I had not had a dog before I adopted Holly. But being retired I wanted a companion so I searched for a small dog [I have a small house and garden] and I eventually got her - she was 4 and half and had lived in kennels previously. The breeder was retiring her as she had been shown then had two litters.
At first she was not used to living in a house or having a one to one relationship with a human. But now 18 mths on she has developed into a loving companion who wants to be where I am [but as she will not climb the stairs sits at bottom when I am up there!]and will sit on sofa and watch TV with me! She will have her independent moments and can be a little stubborn at times but mostly it is my company she keeps. I am hard of hearing so she tells me when the phone rings in another room, she lets me know when the post or anybody else is at front door. But she does not bark unless she has to - she is clever enough to have worked out that I need to know certain things. So I have to say that she has bonded wonderfully with me and I would not be without my little Cairn companion!
I must also say that I did not know anything about Cairns until I got Holly but now I am addicted to them!


ps Some years ago my family had a cat but I am now allergic to them so could not have one - but having a dog has ensured that I get companionship and exercise. Through the exercise I have met lots of people round where I live so Holly has given me a more social life too.

[rallycairn]

Well, of course I'm sure you realize that there's just no way to predict just how a particular individual pup is going to turn out. I think Cairns are marvelous, fabulous, and loving dogs, but truthfully they don't all express their love in a cuddly way. For example, I believe it's Benny's mom (sorry if I'm wrong) in a recent thread who said she thought Benny wasn't too attached to her, until a friend waiting in the car with Benny while she went into a business told her how anxious/watchful Benny was until she returned and how glad he was to see her. We've got a female who was very "touch me not" as far as enjoying petting for her first 5 years, but over time she's become more of a snuggle pup.

To me, the Cairns aren't any less loving, they just don't tend to be touchy-feely types about it. And many of them will tend to want the scritches and petting only for a limited time. That said, I've got one male who will drape himself over my lap and lie like a rag as long as he is being scratched. I mean, until your arms are so tired you absolutely can't keep your fingers moving any more, lol! Still, I think most of the Cairn owners here will agree, terriers are going to tend to be more likely to love to play with you and experience life with you rather than tend to be cuddly types.

Still waters run deep, though, and I have always felt like my dogs loved me, but many of them are simply not the "yes, master, I must watch your every move with my adoring eyes, whatever do you want me to do now? Now? How about now?" types. There's nothing wrong with the eager to please dogs, of course -- they just don't tend to be terriers!

Also, the younger you get a pup the more likely I think that you will both develop habits and actions together that are mutually satisfying. So you would much more likely grow your own snuggly one if you get one young and teach it how great petting and snuggling is.

Oh, and just about any of our Cairns will sleep with us FOR A LITTLE WHILE, but they tend to like to lie more at our feet than snuggle right up at our sides, also they all get hot pretty easily even on the coldest nights. I always know one is going to "abandon ship" when the panting starts, and sure enough, after a minute the hot dog (!) will hop down.

Most Cairns are ready for adventure and will love to accompany you places, especially important for puppies so they get socialized to all sorts of people and places.

Personally, I don't see a huge correlation between gender and personality. I actually think neutered males tend to be more even-keeled than females, even spayed ones, but that apparently hasn't been your experience so far.

These are just my own personal observations and opinions. KUDOS to you for doing your research before you start looking. I hope you find a wonderful pet when you are ready, and so sorry for the loss of your kitty.

[Brianne_Kathrine]

Rallycairn- Yes you are correct that it is me and Benny that I was not sure how attached Benny was to me. He never seemed interested in my presence, he would not even react when I came home. He seemed to be more interested in having other people pay attention to him than me. In short, I was pretty sure that Benny did not like me. Then, he was about a year old and I had a friend stay in the car with him while I went into the store. She said he went nuts, whining, whimpering, looking out the window, etc... until he saw me coming back to the car. Once I got back in the car, he snuggled in my lap fpr a good five minutes and would not even let my friend (who he loves) come close to touching him. So, it turns out he is very attached.

The key with Cairns, and really any dog, is to let them do their own thing. Every dog (Cairn or otherwise) is going to have their own personality. Learn to love the dog for their personality and all that they bring to your life. Cairns do form strong bonds with their owners, but they might not show the bond in the normal affectionate ways that one might expect a dog to do. Work with it, those differences are what makes a dog so much fun.

With that said, I should warn that Cairns can be difficult dogs. Benny was hard to train, he is stubborn to no end, he has a lot of energy, and he gets into everything under the sun. Cairns are also diggers. Benny digs holes like a pro. My warning here is just to make sure that you are prepared for the energy that a Cairn brings.

As for a Cairn versus Westie? They are pretty much the same. I find the Westie to be a little more affectionate and a little more cuddly. I have a male Cairn and female Westie while my mom has a female Cairn and a male Westie. So I have seen all sides of the Cairn/Westie breed. Females tend to be a bit more stubborn from my experience. Of the four dogs, my mom's male Westie is by far the most sensitive and cuddly. But, every dog is going to be different so don't assume that all male Westies will be the same.

Good luck in determining if a Cairn or a Westie is right for you.

Here is a picture from last fall of my two and my mom's two....quite the handful!

 too many terriers.jpg (41.34K)
Number of downloads: 7

Brianne

[Tracy A.]

Elentarien, on 04 February 2010 - 01:44 AM, said:

Do Cairns like spending time with their people? Do they like being cudddled and will they sleep with you? Or are they all about doing their own thing? Are westies any different?

Also, how are the males vs the females? IE, I've had two male dogs in a row now (over the years) that have been very. . .er. . well, good dogs, but very independant. Not really caring about their people. They were all too happy to just go their own way, get their own way, and all in all, anything that happened was either all about them or not important at all.

Hi,
I think that Westies and Cairn's have very simular personalities, they are cousins after all. As for affection- I have two males and they both have very different personalities. Brattwurst is very affectionate and wants to lick your nose all the time. He has a high energy level and is very playful. Mettwust is affectionate, but on his terms. He has a lower energy level, but plays with his brother when Bratt starts.
Both of the boys will want to lay in my lap, or sit next to my husband and I. However, they don't stay there forever... but they will for a few hours if they are sleepy. Keep in mind that my two are going to be 5 years old in May- they have mellowed out, Puppies are a different story! But as I recall Mett & Brat liked to lay in my lap when they were around 5/6 months old - but not before then.

[beccadiane374]

Tanner is a year and a half & is crazy about me. He has been almost since the start & I love it. I've said before that I'm his favorite person & that makes me happy. When I get home from work, after putting things away & such, I sit in the chair & he hops on my lap to give me a faceful of hello kisses. He pretty much always wants me in the room or within eye sight of him when I'm home. He will follow me around after I first get home & even sometimes, just grab onto the hem of my skirt & walk along behind me. He does sleep with me, but usually closer to my legs, as he gets pretty warm at night. But he usually is touching me. Even when he wants to chew on something, if I'm sitting on the floor, he'll come and lay next to me, so at least some small part of him is touching my leg. He cries when I leave & that makes me sad. That being said, however, he is okay with me being gone, as he's used to it b/c I work full time. He, of course, prefers that there are people around, even if it's not me, which works b/c there are other members in my household. He can be very independent at times & he doesn't want to be petted & loved on all of the time, but he pretty much just wants to know I'm there& knowing that seems to make him content. All in all, I would say that he is the PERFECT companion for me. I am absoultely crazy about him & so happy he came into my life. However, of course, this is Tanner. And every other dog is toing to have thier own personality/quirks/preferences.

He does require more exercise than I had been used to w/my other dogs, who were never walked, but that has been good for me, as I now know some of my neighbors & it just gets me more active...but our walk times are our times & they in themselves are a bonding time.

[Zekey's Mom]

First, very sorry to hear about your cat. Each one is special, and to lose a pet after so many years, well, there's a hole left in your life.

I have 3 cats who are great companions, but decided I wanted a buddy who would get me out of my shell and out of the house. Funny though, I researched beagles for months before I found a Cairn! Who knew?

I really got lucky when I found Zekey -- he was a year old, and had only been at the SPCA for an hour! He's everything I wanted in a dog, especially since he's my first. I wanted a "velcro" dog, and I got one... he's always with me, following me around. He dives under the covers at night, or curls up with me on the couch. Makes me laugh all the time. But then, my cats are the same way -- very affectionate, wanting to be with me.

Good luck to you and your search. You may be able to rescue a dog who is in a foster house, where you might be able to spend some time with him before making a decision.

[Autumn&Molly]

I am so sorry about your kitty. I know how hard it is to lose a beloved pet.

We adopted Molly when she was exactly one year old, and she is nearly two now. She is very affectionate, yet still all terrier. She is funny, active, silly, and sometimes a pest! She will lay for hours if you pet her or talk to her. Some days she amuses herself with her toys, and other days she is stuck to me like glue! She loves to give and receive kisses, and equally loves to play hard, run around the yard, chase bugs and lizards and generally be a Cairn. She is never away from my side for long (and when she is I often welcome the break to do something that needs doing!). I think she is a great companion, and a nice mix as far as cuddly, affectionate and independent.

As others have pointed out, each dog is different of course. If you decide to get a dog, he/she might not be *exactly* like your kitty (how could he/she be afterall, as you had her for 16 years and the bond was strong), but I think there is an excellent chance you could form the same type of bond with a new Cairn companion.

[Elentarien]

Hi

Wow, thanks so much for all the feedback! Its very much appreciated.

First off, just to clear up. . .I know it probably sounded like it, but I am *not* expecting another animal to be exactly like my kitty. I didn't mean to make it sound like that. Logically, I know each critter has its own individual personality. However, I suppose, in a way, I'm still caught in that 'wahhhh, I want my kitty! I don't want a 'new' animal, I want HER.' I know in my head that even if I could bring her back. . .I would not want her back the way she was. She was in so much pain the last few hours that I would not wish her back at all. At least I know that, where she is now, she is young again, and healthy and pain free. And I asked God to please explain things to her, so she knows I'll join her. She won't miss me in the time between now and then.

But yeah, I have a huge hole and I'm gonna need to fill it with someone. . .and one reason I've chosen a dog is so that it *won't* be exactly like her. I don't want to feel like I'm replacing her. Or feel like she would feel like I'm trying to. I think I'm just looking for something that will help fill the gap, help me move on and be a give/take relationship on both sides than the "I give, they take" type thing. Or a 'friendship' as opposed to the master/pet setup.

In truth, I don't think I even realized there *Was* a bond until the last few years. When I looked back at how far we had come together and looked at where we were, and hey, we've really grown close! So yeah, I don't expect to pick up a puppy and poof we're best of friends. But. . .it can definitely start out positively and start heading for that.

Wow, from what you are all saying. . .I actually am finding the breed appealing. I don't mind *some* independance. I mean, lets face it. A cat, no matter how cuddly and loving is still a cat. Even my kitty, had her 'no, don't touch me, I'm a cat!' moments. She'd go upstairs to prowl, or tear around like her tail was on fire, or just sit in the window and chatter at birds. She got me trained that that was not 'cuddle time', that was cat time. lol So, yeah, a little bit is ok. I figure it gave us each a bit of a break from each other. But then, playtime was over and she'd go back to being a cuddly friend wanting to be near. So if a Cairn is similar, thats fine. I suppose it would get tiring if they *always* want to be held or cuddled. Might get hard to get anything done too!

Zekey's Mom, Thats one reason I'm going for a puppy as well. I'm VERY much a 'house mouse'. I tend to stay at home more often than not, stay indoors and do my thing. As much as I loved my kitty. . .she didn't help with that. In fact, she encouraged it. I'm hoping a puppy will encourage me to get outside more. I can take it in the car with me when I go places (except, maybe, grocery shopping where all it can do is sit in the vehicle and wait. . .) need me to take it for walks, etc. Definitely would be good for me. I'm only 34 and last time I checked, I'm not SUPPOSED to be sitting indoors all the time. lol Whats funny? I've been looking at beagles too! I do still like the looks of them, but I think I'm liking the Cairns better again.

I'm definitely liking what I am hearing about the Cairns. I don't mind the independence that makes them just want to do their own thing, but 'be nearby'. Thats fine. You can still see they love you. They just don't want to sit doing nothing the whole time you are, right? That I can handle. I can't blame them much, really. I think more what I want to avoid is what my mom's toy poodle is doing. Where he gets upset and ceases to eat or play when she's gone. But when she's around, he couldn't care less about her. He just wants to know that he's not abandoned and other than that, pfft, she can go jump in the lake for all he cares.

Even the sleeping thing isn't bothering me too much. If they like to sleep down near your feet thats probably not so bad. If they're little heat bags. . .well, probably everyone's happier that way. I don't know. My kitty wasn't *that* warm. I don't know if its how she slept with me, stretched out along an arm, or if she just was one of those cooler-running animals. If the Cairns pump out the heat we'd probably both roast, so yeah. I could make a place at the foot of my bed for it.

beccadiane374, that is so cute how your dog will latch on and follow you around. Do you leave him alone when you work or is he home with someone? How do they generally do when left at home alone for an afternoon or evening? Do they usually have to be locked up in their crate during that time or can they (generally speaking) be left to run around the house? Not that I'm planning on leaving my dog home a lot, but there are times when its better for them to stay behind.

Also, I read the Cairns don't shed (and westies do?)? Is this true? If so, thats even better yet. The easier the coat is to care for the better.

How do the Cairns do as far as 'off leash' training. Do they take off or do they generally stick by their owner? I'm aware that 99.99999% of all places require a dog to be on a leash now, but it would also be nice to know that if it slips out the gate on my heels, I don't have to be terrified its going to take off and be hard to locate no matter how hard I try to train it. (Our big dog used to be like that. We never could get it into his head to stay near us. Argh. lol Thank God for id tags.)

And, on a less drastic note, am I right. Is this a Cairn or is it something else? If its something else, I can't pinpoint what is is. (Sorry they're a bit dark. Its from the Inkheart movie and while i can see it in the movie, they are not as clear as I would want for an image. lol)


Thanks so much for all the help. I'm definitely starting to lean more towards this breed now. I should get some dog training books out and start brushing up on good techniques. I think I would like to teach it some tricks too.

[Sue G]

I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your kitty. I understand completely when you say that you want a companion, but someone a little different than your kitty because you don't want to try to replace her. That's the reason I ended up with my Cairn Ozzy. I had a Border Collie that I had raised from a puppy that I had to have put down 11/08. I also have 2 cats, so I decided not to get another dog, figuring the cats were enough company. Well, I waited a year and couldn't stand it. I love my cats, and dogs are more work, but I get something from dogs that I don't get with my cats I guess. Anyway, Brody (my BC) was the BEST dog ever. I even have that engraved on his tombstone. I was god to him. He did exactly what I wanted and wanted nothing more than to please me every minute of his life. BUT...he wasn't cuddly at all. I would try to pet him and he'd run and grab a toy to play. I would ask him for a kiss and he would very quickly lick my nose and then recoil like I asked him to eat tar or something.

I have to admit, I got a Cairn because I thought they were cute, and because I wanted a smallish dog this time around. I had fancied myself this great dog trainer because Brody was so good. I'm finding out it was Brody's doing...not mine! Now, Ozzy's not bad by a long shot, but he doesn't seem to aspire to being a "good dog" like Brody. He does love me and is very cuddly. He sleeps with me at night, and follows me around when I'm home. He is independent, but in a good way in that he doesn't mind when I go to work or out with friends. He plays by himself all the time so If I'm tired he's just as happy throwing around his toy as playing fetch. When Brody was a puppy he WORE ME OUT wanting to play. Ozzy pretty much entertains himself. Being independent doesn't mean he isn't bonded to me though. He'll curl up between my legs on my recliner at night when I watch TV for as long as I let him and will NOT let me out of sight when I'm home.

Now, that "good" dog thing. Ozzy's not quite a year and a half and I've only had him about 4 months so I know it's early and he will get better about commands and such. That being said, Brody was never on a leash and Ozzy is never off a leash. The couple of times he has dashed out of the house he has run right across the street and not even pretended to listen. He'll come to me in the house, but when we're at the dog park he pretends like I don't even exist. Cairns are very couragous and curious dogs. They are not afraid of anything under the sun. But I have found them to be very affectionate and loving at the same time. I couldn't be happier with my choice personally.

Good luck in your quest for a new best bud. I give you a lot of credit in doing research before making your choice, but remember ultimately no matter what kind of personality you end up with, if you put in the time, you will get the bond you want. Some just take longer than others.

[Nena]

We love the small dogs now too. We use to have a collie, great dog, and just like you we were so broken hearted when he died. we did not get another dog for sooo long. But Nena is the greatest. They don't replace your last pet, but they do fill your heart with so much joy. Having a small dog is great, I can take her everywhere with me and people don't mind her. She goes to all the homes we go to and all our friends and family love her and expect us to come with her.
She is loving but does like her alone time. Sometimes a cuddlier, but most times not. loves to play and run, but I would NEVER trust her off leash. She has run off several times and we are running around crazy to catch her (which is impossible because they are so fast). She is 2 years old now and we all have settled into what we call a happy family. Cairns are great dogs, not for everyone, but if you have the time and patients they are so worth it.

[Elentarien]

It is devastating when a close pet dies. I mean, I've lost pets before - and have always cried buckets over it. But its always passed in a few days and while you miss them, you go on. This one isn't so easy. On the other hand, I'm closer to this one than any of the others (had her for longer than I ever had any pet before), and growing up and such, there was always another fairly quickly, so while you were upset at losing the one, the new one 'distracted' and gave hands something to do. This one - this isn't something else to turn to and focus on and I think its making it harder, even though I can feel I'm not ready to deal with another critter just yet.

Then of course, you have to go through the 'this hurts too much, I don't want to do this again. I CAN'T do this again' stage. I've been up and down with that one. But in all honesty. . .you're right. While you have them, they give you so much joy that it seems a shame to miss out on all of that because of a (relatively) short period of pain at the end.

This time there's no help for the wait. The price of dogs. . .I'm going to have to find a part time job or something so I can get the money together to buy the pup. Supporting it isn't too much of an issue, but the initial costs of GETTING it, and getting it fixed. . .*falls over* So, yeah, no matter how I look at it, I have to wait awhile. I guess its good I'm not quite ready emotionally.

From what I'm hearing, the off-leash issue depends on the dog itself? Personality and such? I suppose it makes sense. We can see that ANY animal has its own individual personality and some are better towards some things than others. I guess its like people saying 'all cats are independent and don't make good companions'. That doesn't work. Mine proved that. Perhaps what they are 'trained' to while still young too?

I definitely like the sound of what you describe, Sue G, the snuggling near you, but independent enough to entertain itself. I mean, obviously I fully intend on spending time, training and playing with the puppy. But if they're willing to give you a little space while still liking to be with you thats great.

Ok, I'm just about sold. lol I will, of course, continue to research and read and make *SURE* while I find a job and get the money up. But from what you all are saying here. . .I think I'm going to set my target on a Cairn. Its not like it will be set in stone and I'll still be able to change mind up until I actually bring one home. But I'm liking the sounds of them. I also told my mom about the description saying they don't shed and westies do and she was enthusiastically all for that. rotflol Which is good, since she'll probably have to live with the dog too. It'll be mine, but she'll have to be around it.

I just hope I can get a black one. I know colour is at the bottom of the list when picking an animal. Personality is at the forefront. But I can hope! (That being said, I am partial to black animals. . .but as my calico kitty, and our current orange one attests, I am not firm on that. lol) But I can hope for having both personality and colour, yes?

[MaxPower]

My Cairn:
- In Winter will sleep right next to me and stay there all night
- In Summer doesn't even sleep on the bed at all. Sleeps underneath the bed
- In the evening he can fall asleep on my lap
- Every other time he does not want on my lap at all
- At night I can let him out in the back yard off leash
- During the day, if he sees any other animal he is gone!
- Loves most people. Has cured at least 5 children of their fear of dogs
- Wants to know there are people around but doesn't necessarily want contact
- Loves hiking and loves water (hates to swim)

He is loved by nearly everyone who meets him.

Edited by MaxPower, 05 February 2010 - 04:48 PM.

[jodi0553]

Elentarien,

I don't have much to add, except do search the forum to investigate the off leash issue. You will discover that MANY of us thought our cairn was trustworthy and found out the hard way that most terriers must be leashed 100% of the time. This is not because they will bolt 100% of the time, but for many, because of that one time they see a squirrel to quarry, or see a bunny, or see a tumbling leaf or just get the spirit of the wind and take sprinting faster than you could ever dream.

[Tracy A.]

Elentarien, on 05 February 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

I just hope I can get a black one. I know colour is at the bottom of the list when picking an animal. Personality is at the forefront. But I can hope! (That being said, I am partial to black animals. . .but as my calico kitty, and our current orange one attests, I am not firm on that. lol) But I can hope for having both personality and colour, yes?

Heads up, Cairn Terriers are know for their ability to change color as they age. The kids in the neighborhood just asked me the other day If I had gotten new dogs... since Mett & Bratt were so different looking since the summer. Bratt is really getting Red, and Mett is getting more Silver/Dark Grey... Keep in mind they were very wheaten looking as puppies...and now at 5 years of age are still changing color. If my laptop wasnt down i'd post a picture of the boys at 9 months old and just last month... you'd be very surprised. Heck, someone please post some color change photos since I can't